Matt Steffanina breaks down why creators should have an online platform
From your simple top eight of Myspace to Facebook groups that are private and private Facebook Groups, we've all been member of a group on social media. Over the years, social media platforms have allowed creators to foster flourishing communities in both private as well as through public comment.
But, as it gets more difficult to solve a number of issues that social media has been unable to fix, it is losing its place as a community building tool and administrator it was once. This is why the business and media owners all over the world are beginning to recognize the shortcomings as such.
The Facebook outage of 2021 may be to blame for the initial shift in attitude. A short six-hour period when the platform was down led small businesses and creators alike to lose access to their audience and website traffic, causing widespread revenue loss. Some reported losses of up $5,000 dollars.
To understand the importance of hosting a community off the social web, we had a conversation with the online community master himself, Matthew Steffanina. Steffanina is an internationally renowned as well as the owner and creator of the DNCR Academy.
Since starting the YouTube channel in 2009, Matt has grown a modest following of over 30 million people across different platforms. Matt is famous for his dance performances with artists such as Taylor Swift, Jason Derulo and Meghan Trainer. Not to mention the appearances he has made on TV shows such as So you think you can dance.
Through his YouTube dance videos and live classes, Matt formed a tight-knit community of passionate dancers, but when the pandemic struck and #IRL classes were halted, YouTube simply wasn't cutting it for a method to reach out to his followers or earn an income. Then he resorted towards online training as well as an online community to make a lasting impact on his followers and to create an income-generating business.
Dive into the Q&A interview with Matt to find out the ways he's built his business to be wildly successful and also an online community--and why he believes it's the key to creators controlling their future.
Note: The responses have been lightly edited for clarity.
Give us a quick summary of your background and what you do.
Hello, my name's Matt Steffanina, and I'm a music producer and choreographer living in L.A. But the last twelve years of my life are largely dancing and choreography. My career began in the field of working with artists, but at every turn I started my own YouTube; posting videos of my daily life, lessons and tours. In essence, I was following my journey in a vlog-style. One of the hard things about being a dancer, especially ten years ago, is that you had to rely on your agent or performers to give you opportunities. There was no way to create opportunities for yourself as a dancer. Therefore, in my early years, I found myself waiting on the phone to get a chance to audition. At first, YouTube was my way to stay productive and keep learning new skills and also to market myself as a dancer. I never imagined that it could do the things it has done. It was a time when I grew about a million users, which seemed like very impressive. From it, I ended up getting opportunities working with Ja Rule and Taylor Swift, and Meghan Trainer.
Another thing I was passionate about was the teaching aspect. Early on I started a second [YouTube] channel called the Dance Tutorials Live, where viewers could be taught how to dance. I have built up a community of dancers from all over the world. That actually became the most satisfying aspect of all that I've been doing is the hearing of the stories of the students' accomplishments. They're truly incredible because, at the time I was filming tutorials in the local studio with my tripod. I didn't realize that I could make any sort of impression, so it's been an interesting journey, to say the least.
Did you foresee your YouTube channel evolving into the kind of thing it is today? Have you planned to grow the channel to the level you have currently?
There's no way one could have predicted it to do what it did. The first time I uploaded a film, I was back in Virginia before my move to L.A., and I was looking for ways to get inspiration and meet other dancers. At that time, 14 years ago I was one of the first dancers who joined the platform. I couldn't have imagined the changes that would occur. Today, the channel boasts thirteen million users and 3 billion views. When my first video became viral, I was able to remember that people were commenting from all over the world, and the concept of someone watching from another country seemed unimaginable. I didn't understand it however, now we're here with me performing tours all over the world, because of social media as well as the possibility of getting my dancing out there through the internet.
Take us on a little time-travel journey. Let us know what went out first? Was it YouTube? Was it your career?
People always think that success in the mainstream and Hollywood industry will lead to an online success, but it actually converts less than you would think. The shows I participated in were The Tonight Show, So You Think You're a Dancer, The Amazing Race along with many others. I was getting a lot of opportunities on television that were traditional, but that actually didn't convert much for long-term success. They were short-term opportunities, however, they were amazing.
What really gave me the longevity in my career that I am still doing it more than a decade later, is building a community.
The group really grew out of my dance lessons, which was not my intention, but it turned out to be the best choice I made. Being a great teacher and great instructor in this space, and pushing a community to the next level is much more challenging than being a good dancer. It was my efforts through tutorials, and by teaching students online that led me to build a solid community that's still going strong until today.
Do you want to share with us the process of starting DNCR Academy? How did you turn it into an actual business?
I created DNCR Academy right at the beginning of the pandemic. It was something I wanted to do for several years due to a couple of reasons. It's a subscription platform, which allows dancers to learn lessons. It's a more upscale experience than my YouTube video. On YouTube the content I upload is] a little inconsistently, and the quality isn't necessarily top-quality. This means that we aren't able to attract numerous guests or even teachers. There are a lot of dancers who are enjoying the YouTube tutorials and wanted more training. This is why I started DNCR Academy for the people who want to be a bit more focused. It allows me to attract top instructors such as Bollywood dancing, shuffling, or instructors in dance fitness; things that I wouldn't necessarily use on my YouTube channel. However, on the platform of [DNCR Academy] It's totally acceptable and amazing to be able to offer a ton of diverse styles to our students. At the beginning of COVID I realized that I could not perform and that I would have the opportunity to devote my time to this, which is why we waited a couple of months and built out the platform on . That was June 2020. Then it's been 3 amazing year. I thought we had a strong community on YouTube however, this has taken the strongest of that solid community and put them in a bubble. Everyone is supporting each other. In addition to having the support group, which is learning with each other all over the world and also an emotional support system with members who push on each other. This has become an extremely positive aspect of my life and for dancers at DNCR too.
Do you have any more details about the nature of the community as well as what drove you to start DNCR? Did the community exist prior to the DNCR Academy, or did it come in conjunction with the Academy? Did you anticipate that it would be an important factor in the success of the academy?
I really felt it over COVID. I think a lot of individuals experienced it. It was hard to stay inspired. Difficult to get into a routine because you're stuck inside the home and don't have access to anything. Particularly, dance is a community activity. Dancers can dance on their on their own, however the main thing that I enjoy about dancing is the feeling of being in a dance studio with my fellow dancers and the excitement that comes from that. If all of that goes away, it's difficult to get motivated, even as choreographer. It was difficult for me to find motivation to persevere, therefore I thought, if I'm going through this, I'm sure someone else who is experiencing the same issues and would benefit from a tight-knit community. It was already there in a sense because of the YouTube tutorials. But like I mentioned, there was no consistency. To become a master at something it is my opinion that the number one thing you need [in dancing] is consistency with your practice. This community has enabled us to hold regular challenges every month, which I believe is the most beneficial aspect we could have done during our time at DNCR. It's not just uploading tutorials however, it's an effort to focus on one thing that we're all going to do together. The group is working together on this routine and will submit our video by a deadline. We found the inspiration; the thrill that comes from seeing your friends posting their videos and the cool or constructive comments that came from that. is about becoming a part of the community and truly aiding each other in their growth. This was the part that was challenging to achieve via YouTube, as it felt that all of us were doing this the tutorials independently. The community allowed us to do the same boat, and that made a difference, I think for myself as a choreographer and to the students who were proficient in their learning.
Have you heard any stories of customers from your neighborhood that stand out to you? What individual in the community have you found memorable?
One of my most loyal customers is a guy named Ray. He's from Washington D. C. He's a lawyer and he began dancing when he was in his 40s. He would come home every morning from work wearing the lawyer's suit and take the table to the side so that he could practice hip-hop dancing, and then he'd end up dancing with his children. They produced a variety of videos, especially on COVID, learning the routines together. He ended up going to the Disney Channel show and won it. The guy here at 40 years old did not have a single dance class in his entire life discovered his passion within this community, and ended up being an inspiration to our members. I believe this kind of accomplishment is crucial to celebrate because I too was a complete stranger to the world. I started dancing when I was 18, but most people don't see that; most people today have seen me on stage alongside celebrities and in music videos. It's harder to grasp my struggles I went through early on. However, when you look at those who are currently experiencing the journey] with you and see them come out from the other end and go through this amazing journey-- it's so powerful. It really moved all of us in our community. There are countless stories like those, but Ray was a really special one.
Are you using your community and social media audience to test out new ideas or new products that you've got for your company?
One of the issues we're constantly working on is helping to reach more people. How can we help the most individuals? The community of dancers that would like to master the skill is pretty small, so we want to offer the type of instruction on our platform that allows someone to get to a professional level. But we also are focused in making it more accessible for the individual who wants to just learn a routine every now and then, or those who want to join a gym and feel comfortable. Additionally, we're doing a lot of stuff that deal with fitness through dance. I used to be an instructor for personal training and consider dance to be one of the most effective methods to stay in shape physically and mentally. We're even starting a wedding class because I receive lots of requests to choreograph weddings, but I, unfortunately, do not have time for it, so the course walks you through everything you need to be aware of. The goal is to open it up more to requests I've had over the years, where I've always said if I had the time and energy to accomplish this I'd be awestruck and help a lot of people. We're now trying to find time for those courses.
Can you give us a high-level walkthrough of what your social media strategy looks in the present? How has it changed since your first appearance on YouTube?
The technology has changed significantly over the last 10 years. It's changed with the multiple generations of YouTube and social media generally. In the beginning there was no competition, so I was just uploading videos from my class. This was all there was. It was then that I realized the revolution of vlogging and connections to creators. I decided to start vlogging behind the scenes and it was successful between 2016 to 2019. After that, we began with more challenging tasks, such as the ability to learn a routine in just only ten minutes. These were really successful.
As COVID was announced in 2020, we began experience success using TikTok and other short-form media. It was a huge change since then. It is my opinion that a lot of the dance viewership changed to shorter forms, TikTok in particular, because dancing was so widespread there. There was still content on YouTube however, a large portion of my content was focused on short-form content like fifteen-second dances, instead of 45- to minute-long dances.
The thing about social media that people don't comprehend unless you've lived for several generations of it, is that there's going to never to be an answer which will work for the rest of time--because regardless of what industry you're in, if you find something that works then eventually everybody else will copy it and it's happened in the case of dancing. Dance class videos started exploding and the social media became saturated with dance teachers sharing their dance classes. So, then I had to figure out what's my next step, and it was also copied. It's a constant game just like any other field of having to reinvent and innovate and come up with creative ideas. And, the only method to discover the ideas that are successful is to throw darts at the board. The majority of these will fail however, that's the way to find the one idea that everyone really enjoys. It's not easy to forecast and therefore we follow the premise that, if I have the idea to do something, then I go for it. I say let's do the experiment, and if it does not work then good. Try something different. I think that's the best advice I could give anybody that's trying content creation. Take your time and don't believe that because something didn't succeed the first time, that it's not going to be successful the next or even third time. Sometimes, you need to modify the idea, shape it until suddenly it hits.
It's a good way to get into one thing we didn't cover, social media algorithms. What role have algorithms been a part of your plan? Have they affected your ability to reach your target audience?
If you've ever had the pleasure of using Instagram will know that it's one of the best known. I can remember an instance when I was able to post a tour flyer that might get 100,000 or 200 likes and hundreds of feedback since it was shown to all of my 3.9 million followers. However, if I shared that flyer in the next day, it'd most likely receive only 10% of that [engagementas the algorithm has changed. You must therefore be creative.
Instead of a brochure now the video is a dance that shows the dance taking place cities are popping out and users can navigate to the captions to find out more. It's up to you come up with different strategies to operate within the algorithms, since, at the end of the day, you can't control the algorithm. So we watch a lot of things [metricsrelated to time retention. YouTube has changed from being primarily an online search engine, to becoming an ad-hoc click-through platform. Do your title and thumbnail strong enough to get people's attention? It's possible to create one of the best videos on the planet however if your title and thumbnail aren't appealing to people, the video is likely to fail. If viewers watch the first ten seconds or so of the video, and later move away, YouTube is going to tell you that everybody is loving your thumbnail but your video's performance isn't there well, and we won't show it to your followers. This is just the way the algorithms work today. The strategies have become more about concepts. I am pretty sure that we'll be able to make interesting content and great videos, but if the video is getting used to a routine it is possible to find a million possibilities to pack the title and thumbnail as well as the duration of the video as well as its style. All of this can affect the quality of content. My channel was getting 30 million views per video for about two years. That's insane. Unfortunately, for those who know about monetization because of concerns with copyrights in music, I was not in a position to make money from the videos. However, as far as increasing my audience was concerned, that was stupendous. So things have definitely shifted from that time a bit in particular due to TikTok and Instagram being the main players in terms of the market portion.
Since you bring up monetization, did that at any time affect your decision to start DNCR Academy, or was solely to get offline from the internet?
When attention shifted away from YouTube and then to TikTok as well as Instagram and Instagram, the numbers across the board on YouTube dropped, and so my main method was funding the tutorials, as well as the entire process, was through the monetization process...
At the time of COVID people were looking for to see more content, but there wasn't as any monetization occurring on the channel--it just wasn't enough to make it scaleable in that way, which was one of the aspects that made DNCR. We now have members that pay a monthly membership fee so we have the ability to take those cash and put it back to produce new content and courses. In essence, it's all the activities I wanted to accomplish and for which YouTube monetization wasn't providing sufficient revenue to accomplish. This was an effective method of earning money to increase the number of tutorials on the platform as well as to offer students the content they asked for.
How can you cope burning out that is a part of all of the social media creation of content?
I don't feel like I'm old enough, however when it comes to social media, I've been there since the dawn of time. It's quite amazing how many generations have gone and gone, and the reasons why people become burned out is due to a few things. It seems like they had their expectations and schedule way too high and heavy at the start. For instance, I remember a time around 2016 to 2017 when all of my acquaintances decided to record daily Vlogs. For anyone who's attempted vlogging every day, it's torture. It's a lot of work to keep up with editing, filming and coming up with ideas daily is impossible. I've always kept my channel at one or two uploads a week. Something that I could actually manage. I was sure I was on the road. I made sure that I had the time off. If there wasn't an amazing song out one week or I wasn't feeling inspired to create choreography, I decided to cancel the class. I ensured that this [creation of content] was something that I could accomplish consistently, and that's enabled me to keep going for a long time.
One thing I've tried to do to prevent burnout is to set realistic goals for myself. It's my opinion that in the beginning, when you're only beginning out, it's better to concentrate on only one of two or three platforms. Be simple. On YouTube, upload twice a week. After that, you can take that content and edit it down to short form to put the content on Instagram as well as TikTok. Keep it manageable. It's much better to build a little bit slower, but still have that spark of energy and the determination to keep making content 5-10 years down the road, then go really hard for one year, you'll burn out and the next year, it's time to slow down. It's about being consistent. This is a long-term game in spite of the fact that it appears as if things are moving at a rapid pace.
Do you have other tips for creators who are trying to use social media to increase visitors to their site or product, or creating their own?
The biggest thing is figuring out if you were in the position of your viewer, or customer's shoes, what would make you want to quit a platform and join an online subscription or course. There are times we feel like "I'll do this and the other' and think of it from our perspective. This is why I take a lot of surveys--I ask my followers regularly what kind of course you hope to take the next time around or what you would be the most excited about. At times, I think they'd like to do this incredible choreography that's super difficult and intricate when they say "Look, Bro, I'm just looking for a couple of moves I can show in a celebration.' And I'm saying 'Okay, this week, we'll master moves that we can perform out at parties.' It's great to put yourself in the shoes of others.
Another thing is offering the value. It is my opinion that if you can provide value first without expecting anything in return, without asking for anything in return building confidence, trust, and community, even if you decide to provide a free deal or course you already have this confidence. You've already offered value, and you've already made their lives so much better through what you've provided and they're more than willing to join in and become involved in the process. I think sometimes we make the mistake of seeking to make a sale before we have established the relationship with our customers. And that's one of the great things about social media, you can stay in touch with your followers every day in whatever way, be it dancing tutorials or sharing your day-to-day life, which in turn, helps build rapport as well as establishing a community. the next thing you know, 'Oh I forgot to mention it's great that you've been enjoying all the things you've done then here's the next step where you go one step further.' That's a really effortless transition that people can make instead of meeting your new followers at the beginning and trying to throw them into a group right in the middle of nowhere.
The majority of creators within the space think that really the only way to make cash is to make affiliate deals on social media and you've proven them not to be the case. What would you tell young creators about expanding their revenue streams?
Yeah, brands and affiliate marketing are a part in the overall puzzle. Monetization is another element that makes up the. It is important to need to make sure you have an element from social media platforms that are also providing an source of income because at the time it is impossible to know when the algorithm or the rules will be changed. And that's something that I've learned through the years because there have been periods when I was making most of my income via YouTube and was earning the majority of my money via live events and tour, and times when I was making most of my earnings from TikTok and Instagram, and now, it's . In different phases of my professional life, this thing has switched so many times, and even if I put all my eggs in one pot and I was just in the waiting room for brand deals or YouTube to alter their algorithms to allow me to increase my monetization then I'd have ended up stuck. were stuck.
Build a community and start the process of moving your members off social platforms towards a subscription-based service like , where you control the content and members. Now, you don't have depend on an algorithm to provide your community the content you have. All it takes is, boom! into DNCR and users can get access to it at any time they want. It gives the power back to the original creators. Things are rapidly changing and it's more difficult than ever to rely on the monetization of brands and brand partnerships when you don't know what the social media platforms will take you next.
Can you tell us about the part it helped you be in control of and take ownership of your own destiny as a creator?
The platform gave us to place video content that is safe and the rules never change. I think that's the biggest feature. In the same way I said previously, there was a time when I was getting 30 million viewers per film on YouTube. Now, with the exception of maybe MrBeast and a couple of other instances, it's virtually impossible with just 13 million members. The majority of them are getting my contents. It's crucial to, as you're building your community, transfer the subscribers to a place where you are able to access them and they can access you consistently. On a basic level such as the email lists and text list are great to have, but being part of a group that is not on social media is the most powerful way to stay in touch, and also build passive income as you create, particularly when you're working with a subscription. It's an excellent option to know that your friends are within one spot where you can speak to them, and they can connect with youas well, but also provide the steady stream of income.
What's one piece of advice you would offer to entrepreneurs that is only beginning within the field?
I would say to heavily research your field. Before you ever publish a post on TikTok you should watch one month of videos on Tiktok. You could plod along and create content but I see a lot of time wasted due to people not doing the research first. If you love fitness and would like to establish an online fitness company Find the top ten people who are in the fitness industry via social media. Watch ten hours of their content and get an understanding of why it works and develop your strategy for content by analyzing their content.
It's true that right now you have access to more data than you've been able to access, specifically via YouTube and TikTok, so the answers are all there. It's not necessary to create a new wheel and create a fitness workout nobody's ever seen before, right? However, you must come up with a method to accomplish something that is unique, with your own style, and in your own unique voice. And, you can do it by looking up people you love, taking the best things of theirs as well as adding certain of your own ideas, and developing a content strategy around that. It's important to realize that you have to be humble enough to admit what you're not aware of. This is what I'm doing now. Every year, at least I'll take a few weeks in which I play pretend that I don't know anything, and I watch. What are the kids on TikTok who are just 14 years old and blowing up doing differently than us OGs of the field don't understand? I can think that some dancing isn't appropriate or something, but there's a reason for why people identify with it. I have to know why that is so I am able to continue to grow and develop myself creatively, but also for my own business. Putting a lot of time to research is crucial when you're developing your content strategy. And after you've got that strategyin place, it's up to you to work hard.
Make your own destiny digital goods
The creator economy is poised to see an explosion within online communities as of 2023. Social networks are also aware and respond by making the community feature of their own.
However, as Matt said, in order for creators to reach their audiences in a significant manner and earn passive income, they need to get their followers off social media.
"Brands and affiliate marketing are one piece of the puzzle. Monetization is another piece. But ideally, you want to have an element off of social platforms that are in turn generating income because, at the end of the day, you never know when algorithms or rules are going to alter. That's something I've learned through the years, as there were times that I made the bulk of my earnings from YouTube or TikTok but now it's ."
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