Terms

Before forming Big IP, a content studio that runs podcasts and YouTube channels including The John Campea Show, Pop Apologists and Kempire, Scott Porch was an attorney and a journalist. "The main thing I covered when I was a full-time reporter was TV and film. I wrote for the New York Times and Fast Company and Wired and Decider and some other publications," he starts.

One of the topics he explored was how podcasting and YouTube is transforming the culture with regard to film and TV. He wrote a piece on Game of Thrones recappers for the New York Times and spent ever more time researching this topic and meeting people in the industry, then moved to producing shows with Starburns Audio in 2019. "I started on my own and have expanded from just a few YouTube channels and podcasts up to 14 or 15 channels" the actor says.

Scott believes that two elements create a successful podcast: the creative component and reaching out to the audience. "There's a relationship between those two elements," he says. "It's difficult to grow a podcast that's not very excellent, however it's difficult to take a podcast that is really good and keep it going for a long period of time."

He is of the opinion that it's important to get both components right. "You have to make something people want to hear. You also have to know how to get to find the audience to get those people to be interested in it in the first place." As Scott spoke the topic with Brian Morrissey when he made a guest appearance on The Rebooting podcast often the podcast is the business and sometimes it's the marketing of the business.

Milestones

Success also depends on the scale of the host - this has become increasingly important for launches. The most popular podcasts like The Movie Podcast and How Did This Get Made have existed for a long time, so they are popular because of their show, but it's a crowded space. "It's becoming difficult to cut through the clutter. A lot depends on the person," says Scott. "If Taylor Swift started a podcast on the horizon, she may make money from it the first day. If I started the podcast today, it'd be a different conversation."

It is contingent upon different levels of audience. "At 50k downloads per episode, you'll have a greater variety of host-read monetization advertisers that are likely to be interested in making an initial commitment to the show where you'll make a certain amount of cash. However, even with 5,000, 10,000 downloads an episode, you can start to make incremental money with the programmatic and membership revenue" he explains.

Pop Apologists One of the shows Scott is a part of, has over 2,000 members who have paid for Patreon as well as Apple Podcast subscriptions. They've managed to expand the number of subscribers by doing it for many years as well as being consistent with one show per week for the public, and an episode each week that is only reserved for their members. Scott clarifies that, crucially the episodes are qualitatively the same. "If you love one show, you'll like the other one."

Getting started with membership

In terms of membership specifically, how do you get started? "A majority of the programs that originate from YouTube have a good understanding of YouTube's membership program. It's a general awareness out there however in most instances, they've not done this due to it being a task that's on their agenda but aren't yet able to complete or don't know how they want to do the task," Scott says.

The creator may be creating so many content they're not sure if have enough time to do more episodes for the premium platform or if it is going to generate enough revenue and if the premium platform is going to take over the public platform.

"A majority of this can be a source of confusion or a place on their trajectory that they aren't yet at and need guidance," Scott says. "They have to find someone who can say, 'There's money there in the event that you choose to pursue and pursue that'. If you're a creator in your business, you're wearing so many hats, and you have lots to accomplish. You're going to need individuals and at the very least, instruments and resources to help you build your business," he continues.

So what are you going to do when choosing the right tools and services will help you run your company, especially for membership? "A few things appear to be pretty consistent in this market in the last couple of months," starts Scott. "Number one: people who listen to podcasts, or watch YouTube videos, form an emotional connection with the creators. They are willing to pay creators through recurring revenue - $4 a month, or $6 per month, perhaps $10 or so a month. These consumers do this not simply because they'd like an extra benefit from the creator, but rather due to the desire to aid the creator in that as a career and not as just an extra job."

Another pattern Scott has noticed is that consumers have a preference for a particular platform. "When Pop Apologists were speaking about Apple Podcasts subscriptions, they were already doing very good on Patreon. One of the worries they had with Apple Podcasts is that it would cannibalize Patreon - 'We might need to pull the plug if we see a big loss of Patreon to Apple - but that isn't what happened at all. What actually happened was that Patreon increased in popularity as did Apple Podcasts. Apple Podcasts has grown every month since the launch."

Scott has seen this for numerous other shows and heard about this particularity from other people. "If consumers are on Apple Podcasts, they might be listening to 4 or 6 or 10 podcasts. But that is where they're going to listen to these podcasts. They're not on Patreon and YouTube. But if you put it before users on Apple, they'll subscribe to it."

Connection direct with your viewers

Scott believes that it is essential for creators to be in a direct relationship to consumers and cites a podcast company named Luminary to provide a cautionary story. "It was like a Netflix model that was licensing other creators to create series. It was possible to sign up for this platform and pay."

Scott says that Luminary did not perform because the audience doesn't need an intermediary. "Consumers need to be aware that they're supporting the show directly and that their money of $7 per month or $50 a year is going to that individual creator and not to Luminary or Netflix or somebody else. It's a direct link for the creators as well. It was a good idea for consumers as well as financial sense to create Pop Apologists for Apple Podcasts to go after that audience, but Scott and the team simply do not know who the listeners are. "We don't know their email addresses. We're not able to host a forum on Zoom each month, with them. We can't let them know the time we're scheduled to appear present on another podcast or when we'll be doing a live show. We have no specific information on these people," he explains.

Scott suggests that if would like to earn money from your business, choose the platform that allows you to have that direct relationship. "If you're just growing incrementally you might want to introduce Apple Podcasts subscriptions or Spotify subscriptions - but I'd prefer to have that person's direct information instead of having them kind out there," Scott adds.

Concentrate on the future

For budding podcasters, Scott offers advice about the future of your show: "Don't get insular with your audience. Make your show for the next 1,000 subscribers, not the first 1,000. Everyday, a new person listens to your podcast, but doesn't already understand the format of your show."

Scott suggests that you focus on the initial thirty seconds in your show. Scott says: "Are you introducing yourself to a first time listener? Are you indicating "This is the table that's popular and you don't get our jokes, you may want to go listen to something different since there's already a group of us'.

It's not difficult to fall into that trap due to the direct consumer relationship "You do want the club to exist. But you don't want it to become a club that has no doors, where this quantity of people is the only thing you ever get," he explains. "You've got to find that equilibrium between offering your viewers the content they want, however, not becoming so secluded that someone new listens to it and decides that they've already done their thing. I don't want to be engaged. If each episode can't function as the first episode and you're saying to that new listener the show is not for them."

Scott is given podcast recommendations every day and is able to identify them in just 10 seconds. "Give me ten seconds explaining who you are and the podcast you're about and what you're gonna be talking about today. If I don't, I'll think that 'I'm not a member of this group. I've already missed it' - there's too much background and "in" vocabulary. This can be fatal for podcasts."

The same applies to advertising that plays in the pre-roll format. "Some shows I'm working with use pre-roll ads, which we all earn profits from it," says Scott. "If they did not do that the show would earn less income. But who wants the first thing that they listen to the first time they listen to your show to be an ad for Volkswagen? The first thing that they hear be the voice of the host."

In the end, Scott offers a tip to help new podcasters stay resilient. "You'll discover that many podcasters produce five episodes. They're not seeing any growth which is why they quit. If you're really keen to use this as a business growth tool or just a creative outlet it's going to be necessary to do it longer than you think before you can feel confident that you're making progress.

The good thing: "You're gonna get a much better at it in those first 25, 35 episodes. There will be feedback. You have to do it because you enjoy it and you understand it's going to be an incremental success. There are a lot of shows that grow from their 300th and 400th episode. Are your commitment to the show? There's no way to earn the 25,000 downloads you want right out the gate unless you're famous.

What's your favorite show you like to listen to? What episode do you see long-running playthroughs of? If this is something you truly want to do, you're going to have to wait for a while to figure it out creatively."